A sermon calling friends family and loved ones to come out!

Coming Out Litany

Resource Author: Bill Smith, Susan Willm

October 11, 2008

National Coming Out Day Worship

One: In the beginning God came out

All: through the heavens, the earth, and all of creation.

One: The Children of Israel came out of the bondage of Egypt

All: into the land of God's promise.

One: God came out of a closet of laws and commandments

All: through the door of love in the person of Jesus.

One: Today God comes out in the voices and stories of the poor,

All: the displaced, the oppressed in our midst.

One: Today we worship this out God who loves us boldly and accepts us gladly.

All: Today we come out to praise our God and speak our love for one another.

We all have heard the saying, “Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.” We have all grown up hearing children’s sermons or Sunday school lessons that describe the Christian life as a journey to heaven. It’s as if heaven is some place “out there,” out of our reach or experience, but if we live good lives and are not bad boys and girls, when we die we will go to heaven.

The man in Mark’s story is not talking about going to heaven. He’s interested in how to experience eternal life in the here-and-now. Perhaps in exploring his profound question, we can lay to rest the notion that heaven or eternal life, whichever expression we choose, is a “place” or something outside and unreachable through human experience.

We are all conditioned by our environment. What have we kept since we were little children? As adults, we bring our histories, circumstances, and experiences with us. Our outlook on life is tied to this conditioning. Parents, teachers, friends, neighbors, work associates, and enemies have

all contributed to who we are, what we think, and how we live. The man in Mark’s story was also conditioned by such influences. He never murdered anyone, didn’t run around, never stole anything from anybody, never told a lie, had not defrauded anyone, and had honored his parents. Wow! This fellow could be described as the preeminent community example of integrity. Now here it would be said that his possessions had a hold of him but here I put forth something different may have actually had a hold of him his true life, his authentic life.

October 11^th was National Coming Out Day.  It celebrates the moment when individuals came out of the closet as Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning or as an ally. It’s an important day worthy of celebration because coming out of the closet is not easy.  There are repercussions and as we see from the stories in the newspapers—these repercussions can be deadly.  On National Coming Out Day we celebrate the boldness and bravery it takes to come out of the closet and we also celebrate stories—our coming out stories—stories that tell of those moments when we came out of the darkness and isolation of the closet and told the world who we really were as a Gay man, a lesbian woman, as transgender, as queer, as questioning or as an ally. 

In this day and age my heart breaks when I hear that LGBTQI youth have the highest suicide rate than any other teen or young adult. Researchers have found that suicide among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender youth is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts. According to some groups, this is linked to heterocentric cultures and institutionalized homophobia in some cases, including the use of LGBT people as a political wedge issue like in the contemporary efforts to halt legalizing same-sex marriages. Depression and drug use among LGBT people have both been shown to increase significantly after new laws that discriminate against gay people are passed. Bullying of LGBT youth has been shown to be a contributing factor in many suicides, even if not all of the attacks have been specifically addressing sexuality or gender.

So why come out?  It may have been better if we all just stayed in the closet…no one would know about us, no one would be talking about us and definitely no one could bully us., right?  You know something I was bullied and picked on until I went to college.  When I was little I was born with muscles to short in my legs and they pulled up on my heels so I walked on my toes, my ears were too big, I couldn’t play baseball, I was very socially oriented to kids of my age…whatever  kids will find excuses to tease and or bully.  No one ever called me gay or teased me for it, but I did see them do it to other kids.

National Coming out Day was founded in 1988 by Robert Eichberg, a psychologist from New Mexico and founder of the personal growth workshop, The Experience, and Jean O'Leary, an openly-gay political leader from Los Angeles and then head of the National Gay Rights Advocates. The date of October 11th was chosen because it was the anniversary of the 1987 National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights.

The first headquarters was located near here in West Hollywood offices of the National Gay Rights Advocates. 18 states participated in the first national coming out day, which was covered in the national media. In its second year, the headquarters moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico and participation grew to 21 states. After a media push in 1990, national coming out day was observed in all 50 states and seven other countries.

Right now there are 28 states in which you can be fired just for being gay and  34 if you are transgender.  There is no federal protection.

Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah still have yet to repeal or strike down their state's sodomy laws, although unenforceable due to the Supreme Court ruling they remain on the books.  Hopefully in the not too far future they will be seen as silly laws such as it is illegal to tie your pet alligator to a fire hydrant in Detroit.

This is why it is important to come out.  When we come out our family, friends and acquaintances now us, love us, and are not threatened by us.  People do not change their minds on how they feel about civil rights by watching an add on tv, some may but statistics show it is because they know someone and know their story and care for that person that minds are changed.

Chris Glaser says in coming out as sacrament; “That coming out is our unique sacrament, a rite of vulnerability that reveals the sacred in our lives – our worth, our lovemaking, our beloved, our community, our context of meaning and our God.”[1] Our coming out is a sacrament in which we come into a wholeness, a holiness of who we are called to be.  We do this in community and those who accept and welcome us participate in the grace of the sacrament of coming out.

But we are not the only ones who have to come out, those who support, love and care for us must come out.  They are the voices that add to the chorus calling for the recognition that we are all created by love, through love and we are all loved by God.

I want to share with you a gentleman’s blog post.  Let me tell you a little about him. His name is Brian McLaren.  Brian is an author, activist, and public theologian.  Brian’s writing spans over a dozen books, including but not limited to Naked Spirituality, Everything Must Change: Jesus, Global Crises, and a Revolution of Hope and why did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed cross the road? Christian identity in a multi-faith world. Brian McLaren is also a trustee at Claremont School of Theology. On October 8^th he made the following blog entry…this is all his and I had to share this;

A "farewell, Brian McLaren" moment, or not

I recently received this note from a reader of my books, someone I had met on a trip to Asia a few years back:

I read recently about your recent stand on homosexuality ... Don’t know if everything is correct – but this was my comment on that article:,

“I have regarded Brian as my mentor in coping with expressing my Christian faith in the postmodern world but now I have to break ranks with him - it leaves me devastated. "Neither do I condemn you - go and sin no more" the words of Jesus in the situation of the woman caught in adultery gives me guidance on this issue - "not to condemn" is not the same "it is not sin". To use a supra concept of "Loving God and Loving Neighbour" to excuse what is clearly sin in the Bible is to dilute the fundamental of obeying the Bible for its teaching authority in our lives in defining ethical behaviour - what else will happen next?

Brian my dear friend, thank you for journeying with me and opening my eyes to see my faith being worked out in a post modern world - your journey has taken you in a different direction from where I want to go - I feel lost as to who will be my next guidepost, but I will carry on this journey with Jesus as the author and finisher of my faith ...”,

I met you when you were in [Asia] some years ago. If you get to read this and would like to respond it will be great but otherwise it’s ok. God bless you brother.

Thanks for sending me your comment. I appreciate your warmth and feel your sadness in needing to (as you say) break ranks with me. There is a lot I'd like to say - but I'll just offer three (actually four) brief comments.

First, as you probably know, I'm not a "we have to keep ranks" type of guy. One of the characteristics I most appreciate about "a generous orthodoxy" or "a new kind of Christianity" is the freedom to stay unified and stay in fellowship even when we disagree. In fact, if we only "keep ranks" with those with whom we agree, it pretty much guarantees we won't be challenged to think new thoughts and grow into new areas. So, it's important for you to know that if you hold a different view than I do, whatever the issue - I would not want to "break ranks" with you. In fact, I am continually enriched, instructed, and challenged by people who differ with me on this and other issues - and I hope the reverse could be true.

My view on human sexuality has indeed changed over a period of thirty years, and actually, the views of most conservative Christians have also been changing over that period. It wasn't too long ago that the only conservative position was, "It's a choice and an abomination." When that position became untenable due to increasing data, the conservative position evolved to "it's a changeable disposition, and we know how to change it." When fewer and fewer people who claimed to have been reoriented were able to sustain the reorientation, the position shifted to "it's a hard-to-change disposition, but it can be done with great difficulty." More recently, I hear conservatives say "the disposition may be unchangeable but the behavior is a choice, so people may choose to live a celibate life or a heterosexual life, even against their orientation." All that's to say that it would be unfair of me to break fellowship with people who are themselves on a journey, just because they aren't where I am at this point.

So I'm glad that difference doesn't need to mean division. Which brings me to a second comment ...

In many settings - some cultural, some multi-religious, some denominational, not taking a firm anti-homosexuality stance can cost you your reputation, your job, and even your life. Because you have been an outspoken supporter of my work in the past, I can see how my public stand would put you in a terrible position. If you don't publicly break ranks with me, people may practice "guilt by association," branding you a "friend of sinners," or worse - someone in ranks with a heretic. Those costs would be very high. So be assured - I don't criticize you for breaking ranks with me - and doing so in the most public way possible. I can see how even if you privately agreed with me (and I know you don't), it would be almost impossible to do otherwise than break ranks, as you say. Many of my friends have been in a similar position. I'm deeply sad about this - for both sides - but understand it.

Finally, this issue is not going to go away. A significant percentage of people are gay - I would guess around 6%. This percentage seems to be a remarkably consistent feature of every human culture and population, every denomination, every religion, including those who deny it exists among them. If each gay person has two parents, the issue affects 18% of the population. If each gay person has one sibling and one friend, we're up to 30% who are directly affected by the issue.

It's much easier to hold the line on the conservative position when nearly all gay people around you are closeted and pretending to be other than they are. Eventually for some, the pain of pretending will become greater than the pain of going public. Whenever a new son or daughter comes out of the closet, their friends and family will face a tough choice: will they "break ranks" with their family member or friend, or will they stay loyal to their family member or friend - which will require them to have others break ranks with them?

In my case, I inherited a theology that told me exactly what you said: homosexuality is a sin, so although we should not condemn (i.e. stone them), we must tell people to "go and sin no more." Believe me, for many years as a pastor I tried to faithfully uphold this position, and sadly, I now feel that I unintentionally damaged many people in doing so. Thankfully, I had a long succession of friends who were gay. And then I had a long succession of parishioners come out to me. They endured my pronouncements. They listened and responded patiently as I brought up the famous six or seven Bible passages again and again. They didn't break ranks with me and in fact showed amazing grace and patience to me when I was showing something much less to them.

Over time, I could not square their stories and experiences with the theology I had inherited. So I re-opened the issue, read a lot of books, re-studied the Scriptures, and eventually came to believe that just as the Western church had been wrong on slavery, wrong on colonialism, wrong on environmental plunder, wrong on subordinating women, wrong on segregation and apartheid (all of which it justified biblically) ... we had been wrong on this issue. In this process, I did not reject the Bible. In fact, my love and reverence for the Bible increased when I became more aware of the hermeneutical assumptions on which many now-discredited traditional interpretations were based and defended. I was able to distinguish "what the Bible says" from "what this school of interpretation says the Bible says," and that helped me in many ways.

So - many years before I learned I had members of my own close family who were gay - my view changed. As you can imagine, when this issue suddenly became a live issue in my own family, I was relieved that I was already in a place where I would not harm them as (I'm ashamed to say this) I had harmed some gay people (other people's sons and daughters) earlier in my ministry.

I know this won't be convincing to many people, but it's an honest though brief accounting of my story. I express a similar thought in my new book (p. 52). I'm addressing the issue of hostility toward other religions, something many people feel they must uphold in order to be faithful and orthodox Christians:

I think of a friend of mine from the same background of Christian fundamentalism I hail from. When his son came out, he had no support to help him accept the possibility that his son could be both gay and good. With deep ambivalence, he stood with his tradition and condemned his son. The cost -alienation from his son - was high, but it grew unspeakably higher when his son internalized the rejection and condemnation of his community and took his own life. Or I think of another friend, the mother of a gay son, also from my heritage. She came to me in secret to talk, knowing that one of my sons had come out around the same time as hers. Through tears she said, "I feel like I'm being forced to choose between my father and my son. If I affirm my son, I'm rejecting everything my father stood for. If I stand with my father, I'm rejecting my son."

In religion as in parenthood, uncritical loyalty to our ancestors may implicate us in an injustice against our descendants: imprisoning them in the errors of our ancestors. Yes, there are costs either way.

I want to add one more brief comment. You ask, if we change our way of interpreting the Bible on this issue (my words, not yours) "- what else will happen next?" Here's what I hope will happen. After acknowledging the full humanity and human rights of gay people, I hope we will tackle the elephant in the room, so to speak - the big subject of poverty. If homosexuality directly and indirectly affects 6 - 30% of the population, poverty indirectly and directly affects 60 - 100%. What would happen if we acknowledged the full humanity and full human rights of poor people? And then people with physical disabilities and mental illnesses and impairments? And then, what after that? What would happen if we acknowledged the spiritual, theological, moral value - far beyond monetary or corporate value - of the birds of the air, the flowers of the field, of seas and mountains and valleys and ecosystems? To me, Jesus' proclamation of the reign or commonwealth of God requires us to keep pressing forward, opening blind eyes, setting captives free, proclaiming God's amazing grace to all creation.

So - thanks for your note, for the warm spirit in which it was written, and for the invitation to respond. No need to be devastated. You will be fine. God bless you too, my brother! I hope our paths cross again soon. In friendship, as always – Brian

http://brianmclaren.net/archives/blog/i-read-recently-about-your.html

In Mark 17 10:21 “Then Jesus looked at the person with love” not sadness or anger for Jesus knew where his heart was at in his own process, “and said There is one more thing you must do.  Go and Sell what you have and give it to those in need.”  When we risk everything and come out we gain a world where we are authentic and comfortable in who we are.  As LGBTQIA people we have an opportunity to continue to share what we know with those in need.  We have an opportunity to continue to educate and stand up for those who may not be ready to stand up for themselves yet.

As Brian said; “What would happen if we acknowledged the full humanity and full human rights of poor people? And then people with physical disabilities and mental illnesses and impairments? And then, what after that? What would happen if we acknowledged the spiritual, theological, moral value - far beyond monetary or corporate value - of the birds of the air, the flowers of the field, of seas and mountains and valleys and ecosystems? To me, Jesus' proclamation of the reign or commonwealth of God requires us to keep pressing forward, opening blind eyes, setting captives free, and proclaiming God's amazing grace to all creation.”  What would happen next….I can’t wait to see.  Amen

---

[1] Chris Glaser, Coming Out as Sacrament (Louisville, Ky.: Westminster John Knox Press, 1998), 9.

Tradition a reflection on Mark 7:1-8, 14-15, 21-23

Tradition!

When I was younger one of my favorite Christian rock groups was Daniel Amos they were totally 80’s and totally cool.  They had a song called colored by  I want to share a few of those lyrics with you.

Colored By!

from the album "¡Alarma!"

Words and Music by Terry Taylor
©1981 Paragon Music Corp./ASCAP
You might not recognize, the truth gets colored by
Wrong things, bad things do disguise
Afraid you might despise the real thing


Down at the little church they all wear hats
They feel they're doing right
Over at the big church they hate those hats
It get's them uptight now is that right?

You might not recognize, the truth gets colored by
Wrong things, bad things do disguise
Afraid you might despise the real thing

            There is a small-town church in upstate New York. They'd had a preacher in that church for over thirty-five years. He was loved by the church and the community. After he retired, he was replaced by a young preacher. It was his first church; he had a great desire to do well. He had been at the church several weeks when he began to perceive that the people were upset at him. He was troubled.

            Eventually he called aside one of the lay leaders of the church and said, "I don't know what's wrong, but I have a feeling that there's something wrong." The man said, "Well, Father, that's true. I hate to say it, but it's the way you do the Communion service."

            "The way I do the Communion service? What do you mean?"  "Well, it's not so much what you do as what you leave out."

 "I don't think I leave out anything from the Communion service."  "Oh yes, you do. Just before our previous preacher administered the chalice and wine to the people, he'd always go over and touch the radiator. And, then, he would--"

            "Touch the radiator? I never heard of that liturgical tradition."  So the younger man called the former preacher. He said, "I haven't even been here a month, and I'm in trouble."

"In trouble? Why?"

            "Well, it's something to do with touching the radiator. Could that be possible? Did you do that?"

            "Oh yes, I did. Always before I administered the chalice to the people, I touched the radiator to discharge the static electricity so I wouldn't shock them."

            For over thirty-five years, the untutored people of his congregation had thought that was a part of the holy tradition. I have to tell you that church has now gained the name, "The Church of the Holy Radiator."

In Jesus' day, Jews not only ate kosher food, but they also observed special rituals at mealtime.  One of those rituals had to do with ritual hand washing.  Ritual hand washing had nothing to do with hygiene.  It involved dribbling a small amount of water over your hands -- not enough to get your hands clean -- but getting your hands clean wasn't the idea.  The intent was spiritual cleansing -- washing away spiritual contamination.  It was a nice idea, really -- an acknowledgement that we need cleansing -- a way of getting right with God three times a day -- rather like saying grace at the table.

But hand washing wasn't required.  At least, God didn't require it of ordinary people.  God required priests to cleanse their hands before performing sacred duties.  The Pharisees decided that, if it was good for priests, it must be good for everyone.  They made a new rule.  Everyone should go through ritual hand washing before eating.  That seems like a good thing, doesn't it!  Except that they forgot that it was their rule --
not God's rule!

At one level, the controversy here is between the Judean elite who were a very small percentage of the population, and everyone else. The elites lived in towns and cities and had access, time, and money for the water needed to follow their interpretation of the washing required to follow the Torah.

This is what the ritual looked like;

Before the Jewish elite would eat, they poured water over their hands with the fingers pointed upward. This water was kept in special jars and guarded to be free from any impurities.  Then they washed their hands and then poured water again over their hands from the wrists; this time holding their fingers downward.  It was thought that in this fashion, they would purify their hands from any ceremonial uncleanness.  Now this action had nothing to do with hygiene.  It was merely a ceremonial washing, and it had become a very important tradition.

The problem with such traditions is that they became more important than the things they represented.  In verse 8, Jesus states, “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the traditions of men.” This is to strike against the Pharisees challenge of him and his disciples. When we read it today, we need to be careful to read this as a condemnation of the Judean elites and not of "Jews." Indeed, the crowd of peasant Jews with Jesus was cheering him on in this confrontation. Jesus is condemning hypocrisy not Judaism, and the all-too-human tendency to make sacred what is actually human customs and traditions.

Jesus saw through their tradition and the trap they were attempting to lay.  He saw that they were more concerned with outward things than they were with the things that really count.  Their worship was vain because they exalted tradition to the status of doctrine.

In Matthew 23:25-26, Jesus says, “Woe to you. Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!  For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.”

Jesus cut through the superficiality of their outward observances to stress that the inside was more important than the outside.  Jesus was more concerned with their heart condition than their hand condition.  Jesus was more concerned about their spiritual practice than their ritual practice.

The "tradition of the elders" is NOT the teaching of Moses as found in the Bible. It is the practice of the Judean elite which they are seeking to impose as THE one and only correct practice. And, as noted, the amount of water, time and money to follow those practices was beyond the reach of most people, and so most people were seen by the elites as unclean or, more likely, saw themselves as superior.  Only God can lift one human above others and only God was and that was through humble servitude.

There have been times throughout church history when human traditions became a major problem because they were essentially added to the Word of God. Even today we have Pharisees in the world.  There are people that would rather pick and choose Bible verses and traditions that were written for another time and place, they intentionally add words or mistranslations just so the Holy Book can say what they want. They would prefer to take texts out of context and use it to enslave, berate, condemn and persecute others just so that THEY can feel important... and for what; Their Church, memberships, Money, Ignorance, Foolishness? Is that what causes the twisted interpretations of Scripture and formation of the traditions, People in the spirit of the Pharisees? That is just Foolishness!

After all of the miracles Our Lord did in front of these Pharisees...none of that mattered because His disciples didn't wash their hands? The Lords teachings to the Pharisees didn't raise alarm as to who was really standing before them? Why is it that none of these "Pharisees" washed Our Lords hands after performing any one of the numerous miracles He did RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES?

Even today we are not immune from making our own tradition-additions to God’s Word.  We still have a nature that loves to make its own laws and decrees and commandments. How many times have we heard, and it doesn’t matter where or when you heard it, that famous line; “but we have always done it this way!”  There is just something innately in us that wants to hold on to the way it was always done. I think this is why the Buddhist teaching of impermanence can be so essential.

The Buddha taught that because all things in existence are in a constant flux of change attachment to them becomes the cause for future suffering. 

Holding onto human traditions as something sacred only gives a place where to establish a hierarchy.   The elitye of the ancient Jewish tradition believed they were better than others for they were performing this extra ritual.  Which really only scorned and belittled those of lesser stature in their community.  There are so many things we use, sometimes unconsciously, to separate ourselves from other.  We use politics, education, jobs, and even our clothing to separate ourselves and establish false sense of importance. I know people who would look down upon us just for not dressing for Sunday meeting.

  Your political party and views do not make you a better person before God.  Your organized and prioritized schedule does not give you license to look down on others.  Your well-behaved children do not merit you a “perfect parent” award except in Marilyn’s case.  Your church attendance and attempts to be nice to the people you like does not make up for a dormant devotional life and for failures to live up to your faith when it is inconvenient.  Inside every one of us is a little Pharisee who loves to elevate his or her own status before God because of some human standard we have set for ourselves and mentally morphed into a divine dictum.  But to that inner Pharisee Jesus says, “You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” 

We do the same thing in church.  We quickly learn to count on a certain predictability of our activities and worship, and we are very hesitant to see them change.  If we are not careful, some of these expectations become full-fledged traditions.  They take on significance far greater than simply being a convenient routine.  Some things become almost holy and unchangeable.  When that happens they have moved from being a routine to become a sacred cow.  Then, when someone tampers with a sacred cow, people become very upset.

Every church has such traditions that have become sacred cows.  In one church the color of the carpet had become the sacred cow.  They had always had red carpet, but now the property committee was going to change it to blue.  Some people just weren’t sure they could worship God on a BLUE CARPET, God forbid.

At another church, they had the Great Hymnbook Controversy of 1975.  For twenty years, the 1956 version of the hymnal had been used and cherished in that church, but now the music committee wanted to purchase the newly updated 1975 version.  This decision sparked a major debate on the quality of music in each hymnal.  The final decision was made at a two-hour church-wide business meeting where they finally hammered out a compromise that barely averted dividing the church.  The 1956 hymnal would be kept in the sanctuary, and the 1975 hymnal would be used in the chapel.

I have heard about a church where a similar controversy erupted over whether the Communion would be served before the sermon or after the sermon.  Other churches fight over where the piano is placed, where the Doxology is sung, or even how to take the offering.

It seems that every church manages to elevate certain practices from the routine to sacred traditions.  Church growth specialist Bill Easum once wrote a book about this phenomenon.  He called it “Sacred Cows Make Gourmet Burgers.”  Churches that grow have to find a way to eat those sacred cows.

A young rabbi went to serve his first synagogue, and he noticed that on the first Sabbath, when he said the prayers, the congregation on the left side of the synagogue stood at the beginning of the prayers, and the congregation on the right side remained seated.  The young rabbi thought this was a little odd, but continued to say the prayers.  After the first couple of petitions, he noticed a murmuring, which intensified as he continued the prayers.  Finally, it got loud enough that he was able to make out some of the words.

The murmuring in the congregation was a disagreement between the two halves of the congregation; the left half was saying that in this synagogue the tradition was that the congregation stood during the prayers, and the right half was saying that in this congregation the tradition was that they sat during the prayers.

As the prayers continued, the voices got louder, until finally the rabbi stopped because he was sure that God was the only one who could hear him anymore.

Hoping that this event was due to having a new rabbi (and attempting to influence him), the young rabbi did not discuss it with anyone, but the next Sabbath, it happened again.  The argument once again got so loud that the young rabbi stopped before he had finished his prayers - people were actually yelling at each other.  The tone had gotten rancorous, and each side of the congregation started to engage in accusations of heresy and other name-calling.

The young rabbi looked up the elderly rabbi who had served this congregation for years, and told him what was going on.  The question he asked at the end of his story was, "So is it the tradition of the congregation to stand during the prayers?"

The older rabbi stroked his beard and replied, "No, that has never been the tradition of that congregation."

"So the tradition is that they remain sitting during the prayers?"

The older rabbi looked off into the distance, as if remembering the good years serving God as a rabbi and said, "No, that was never the tradition of that congregation either."

The young rabbi threw his hands in the air in exasperation, and said, "There must be some solution to this!  The way things are now, they just end up screaming at each other during the prayers."

The old rabbi's face lit up in a smile as he lifted an admonishing finger to the sky and said, "Yes!  That was our tradition!"

But not all traditions are bad.  Some traditions are important.  They can be a valuable aid in communicating to us the truth about God and the truth about ourselves.

When we talk of tradition, most of us who have seen the movie “Fiddler On The Roof” cannot help but remember the wonderful scene in which Tevya sings the theme song, “Tradition.”  As he sings that song, he explains to the audience the value of tradition as he sees it.  At one point he says, “Our tradition tells us who God is and who we are.”   When tradition can do that, it is a good tradition.  You see, tradition is meant to speak of the reality behind the tradition.

For two thousand years, the Church has observed the twin traditions of baptism and the Lord’s Supper, and both of them are the very best kind of tradition.  They meet the test that Tevya gave us – they tell us who God is and who we are.  And both speak of spiritual realities behind and beyond the tradition itself. At MCC’s all over the world we returned to the tradition of the open table.  I say returned for there is nothing to indicate that Jesus ever had any boundaries around any table that he partook of. Especially the table of the final Passover he would celebrate, what we refer to as the last supper.

God wants to do a new thing today, and we need to be open to it.  What worked yesterday may not have power for today.  We live in a new day with new challenges, and we need to hear the word of the Lord for today.

Maybe that’s a good way for all of us to look at tradition.  Respect for tradition is good.  Elevating tradition to the level of God’s Word is not.  Following traditions that express Christ’s gospel and demonstrate why the gospel is so important to us is good.  Following traditions because that’s just the way things are done around here is not.  Traditions should not become additions to God’s Word.  Traditions, whether ancient or relatively new, are simply another way for us to proclaim Christ’s message God’s love for all to all who have gathered in his house.  That’s a message that’s worth proclaiming in Word, Sacrament, song, and even tradition! 

 Paul said in Philippians 3:13, “Forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.”

Let's be open for God to do a new thing in our lives.  Let's be open for God to do a new thing in our church. Let us be open to all the possibilities god places before us everyday.

Amen.

feeding the 5000

A young preacher graduated from Bible College and was invited back to his home congregation to preach a sermon. He wanted to make a good impression.  He did his best to prepare to preach to his home church. He wrote his sermon word for word and memorized it. He had a very dramatic beginning to the sermon.

He started by hitting the pulpit real hard and said, “Jesus took 5,000 fishes and 2,000 loaves and he fed 5 people!” He paused very dramatically and pointed his finger at the congregation and said, “Could you do that?” Everyone roared with laughter and he couldn’t imagine what was going on. At that point one man raised his hand.  That set the young preacher off. He said, “Sir, you are guilty of blasphemy. How could you claim to do something that only our Lord could do?” This man stood up and began to explain to the young preacher about the big mistake that he had made.

 The preacher, when he realized what he  had  done, was so humiliated that he couldn’t say another word. He sat down in utter confusion and disgrace. The home church was very loving, very kind, very forgiving and they all came around and put their arms around him and they

said, “Look, everyone makes mistakes. Forget about it. You work on this sermon and next Sunday try it again.”  They finally convinced him.

   

The next Sunday after working on that sermon another entire week, he stood up in front of the congregation. This time he got all of his fact and figures straight, but he started out the very

same way. He hit the pulpit very dramatically and he said, “Jesus took 5 loaves and 2 fishes and he fed 5,000 people. Could you do that?” The same man raised his hand. The preacher was really upset and he said, “Sir, how can you claim to do something like that?”  The man said, “With the leftovers from your sermon last Sunday.”

The story of the loaves and fishes as read today is from marks Gospel yet it appears in all four gospels so it evidently had some significance.  It is often read as a metaphor for community.  The story itself is used to recall how Israel was many times protected and sustained by God. And it mirrors the Jewish expectation of an end of time banquet with God.  Again when they are seated into groups of 50 or 100 these were prescriptions of early Christian community life.

Well, the gospel story for today is an old favorite story about Jesus and his disciples that was told over and over again.  There are some old favorite stories which are told only one time in the gospels.... such as the story of the Good Samaritan, told only once; the story of the Prodigal Son, told only once; the story of the Sheep and the Goats, told only once.  These are favorite, great stories but they are told only once in our Gospel. 

But the story for today, about the five loaves and two fish, is not told merely once, not twice, not three times, but four times in its variations.  It is the only Gospel miracle which is told in its fullness in all four Gospels.

Now, why is this story told over and over again?  I believe it is because this story captures the truth, the essence of all the people involved; the essential truth about Jesus and the essential truth about the disciples and the essential truth about God.

So I would like to retell this story for you, but include elements from the other Gospel versions of the story, and then two more Bible stories that are connected.  Let’s begin.

It was springtime in Israel.  The rains of March and April had come and the land was now fresh and green.  The brown hills had soaked up the spring rains and the flowers were blooming and the hills were green again.

It was Passover time in Israel.  Passover was their great religious feast, like Easter is for us.  That meant a holiday from school, and a holiday from work.  That meant that people were taking trips, packing their donkeys and going on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.  It was a time of religious aliveness, of fasting and feasting and traveling.

It was popularity time for Jesus.  Jesus had healed people of their diseases and his popularity was becoming enormous.  He was like a new rock star, and thousands would gather to hear him preach just as thousands gather over in the Staple center to hear a rock concert and see a star in person.

We see disciples had just returned after being sent out in groups of two to preach and offer healing and expel demons across the country side.  The disciple come back all excited that it really worked they were amazed and astounded and told Jesus of all that they had done.

But it was also tragedy time in Israel.  According to the Gospel of Matthew, John the Baptist had just been beheaded.  John, the Baptist, was the greatest moral force, the greatest spiritual force, the greatest prophet the land of Israel had experienced for four hundred years.  He was the person that everyone looked to for moral and religious inspiration, and he was just be headed by King Herod.  Everyone was stunned by this tragedy, by this enormous loss, including Jesus, who had been baptized by John.

And so it was grieving time in Israel, mourning time.  People were stunned, and Jesus wanted to get away by himself to grieve, to pray, to remember.  He wanted to get away to a lonely place and so he got into a boat to sail across Lake Galilee to a remote point, some four miles away, in order to get away from the massive crowds who were following him, to be alone and grieve the loss of John the Baptist.

To help us today, I want to use the geography of our area.  Let’s imagine that Jesus got onto a bike here and rode it to Warner brother studios.  That’s what happened in the story for today; Jesus took a four mile boat ride to a more remote, wilderness area, but the crowds could see from the shore where he was sailing to.  And so the crowds followed along the shoreline, keeping an eye on his boat, and so when Jesus’ boat landed, many of the crowd had already arrived.

And what was Jesus’ reaction to the thousands who had shown up?  Irritated?  Angry?  Imposed upon?  No, he looked on the massive crowd with compassion, like they were sheep without a shepherd, like people who were in need of spiritual feeding for their spiritual hungers inside.  And so he taught them and he healed them.

The day quickly passed.  It got to be later, long into the day, and one of the disciples said:  “Lord, the hour is late and the people don’t have any food and we are a long way from any villages.  Maybe you should send them home now.”  And Jesus said to Philip, according to John’s version of the story, “How are we going to buy bread, so that people can eat?”  Jesus said this in orderto test Philip.  Philip replied, “It would take more than two hundred denari, more than two hundred days of wages, and even that wouldn’t be enough bread to feed all these people.”  Jesus said, “Look around the crowd and see what you can find.”  Andrew found a young boy with five loaves of bread and two fish, and brought the boy, fish and bread to Jesus.  Jesus invited everyone to be seated on the green grass. He had them sit in groups of 100 or fifty  Jesus took the bread…looked up into heaven...gave thanks...broke it…gave it to his disciples...who gave it to the crowds.  And they all ate and were all satisfied ...and… there were twelve baskets of bread left over.  The number who ate was five thousand men, plus women and children.

That story was told over and over again in the gospels, but it continues.  A few days later, Jesus was again out in the wilderness, again with a large crowd of four thousand men plus women and children, and the same story happens again.  This time, seven loaves and a few fish were found.  And once again, Jesus took the bread...looked up into heaven...gave thanks...broke it...gives it to his disciples...who shared it with everyone. And everyone ate and everyone was satisfied, and...there were seven baskets of bread left over after the feeding of the four thousand plus. 

And then comes the final twist to the story, the final intrigue to this saga.  Jesus and his disciples got into a boat and sailed back again across Lake Galilee.  And as they arrived in the boat, the disciples began discussing quietly among themselves, out of earshot of Jesus, “Who brought the bread?  Did anyone bring any bread for lunch?”  And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, asked them:  “Don’t you men get it?  Don’t you understand?  Are you so hard headed?  Are you so hard hearted? You just saw the feeding of the five thousand and twelve baskets of bread which were left over.  You just saw the feeding of the four thousand and seven baskets of bread which were left over.  Don’t you get it about who I am?  Don’t you get it about the abundance generosity of God?  Don’t you get it that God will take care of you in your needs?  Don’t you get it, even after you have personally seen these miracles? 

And that story, about the feeding of the five thousand with five loaves of bread and two fish, that story seems to capture the essence of all the people involved.  That’s why it was told over and over again.  This story captures the very essence of Jesus as the wondrous Son of God.  It captures the very essence of God, in God’s abundant and extravagant generosity and grace, twelve and seven baskets full of bread left over.  And it captures the very essence of us his disciples, who don’t get it, even after we have seen first hand, God’s miraculous work in our lives

But this is where it gets kind of sad for me…The real sadness of this situation arises not from the fact that there was so many people, not from the fact that these people were  so hungry  and weary,  not  from the fact that there was no food to feed them, but the real sadness arises from the fact that the disciples had no faith in their Lord as a source of supply. They looked at what they had, or in this case, what they did not have. They knew that it was inadequate, and so, their conclusion was that there was nothing that they could do.

They just got back from performing miracles of their own but now suddenly they are helpless. These guys just didn’t get it, at least not while Christ was among them.

Now I want us to note Jesus’ attitude and action. Jesus was moved with compassion because of the multitude’s condition. To the suggestion “Send them away,” Jesus replied, “You give them something to eat.”In response to this came the disciples reply of inadequacy. So Jesus responded, “What do you have?” Their response was that they didn’t even know what they had; they had to go and find out that they had five loaves and two fish. The Gospel records state that they ate as much as they wanted, two of the Gospels state that they ate until they were gorged.

Now p[lease indulge me as I share a similar story of another miracle;

After months of hard work and years of saving, the day came for Reb and Jackay to open their own restaurant. All that was needed was the final health inspection and the issuing of their business permit. That was scheduled for first thing that morning; then "Our Place," as they called

their restaurant would be in business.

But that morning the winds and rains of Hurricane Hugo hit, unexpectedly making its way 200 miles inland to their North Carolina town. Trees were uprooted, power lines were down, homes and stores were destroyed. Reb and Jackay hurried to their restaurant. Everything was intact.

A deputy sheriff pulled up and told them that their restaurant, the fire station next door and a service station down the road were the only ones that electricity. Reb and Jackay called the health inspector to come immediately so they could open, but because of the power outage, he couldn’t get into his office to issue the permit. No permit, no business opening. With a refrigerator stocked with 300 pounds of bacon and beef and bushels of tomatoes, lettuce and bread, there was only one thing to do: give the food away.

They told the deputy, "Tell your coworkers and other emergency people you see that we’ll have free BLT’s and coffee for anybody who want to drop by." Soon firemen, policemen, linemen and other workers were filing into Our Place. When the couple heard that another restaurant was scalping people by charging ten dollars for two eggs, toast and bacon, they placed a sign in their window: FREE BLT’S--FREE COFFEE. Families, travelers and street people were welcomed.

Then something began to happen. People started to clean counters and sweep floors. Volunteers took over the dish washing from Jackay and helped Reb at the grill. Having heard about what was going on at Our Place from the local radio station, people from a neighboring town that had not been too badly hit by the storm brought food from their freezers. Stores and dairies sent over chicken, milk and foodstuffs of all kinds.

And so the long day went. Those first cups of coffee and BLT’s had somehow stretched to 16,000 meals. The restaurant’s small stock increased by 500 loaves of bread, cases of mayonnaise, 350 pots of coffee and bushels of produce.

I imagine this is what occurred at that secluded place with Jesus.  The miracle was community happened.  People reached out and shared what they had till there was abundance.  The disciples, through the grace of Jesus’ learned to lead by example.  What we have in this story, a story so important that it shows up in each of the Gospels, is the first example of paying it forward, and it was paid forward to the point of abundance.

In the play corpus Christi Joshua comes out of the desert hungry he approaches peter the fish monger and asks for fish.  Peter proceeds to inform him that he is not running a charity but eventually he gives in and hands Joshua a fish.  A nearby peasant woman observes this and asks for a fish as well.  Peter gets frustrated yelling at Joshua “see what you started?”  Joshua offers his fish to the woman who proceeds to tell him it is not for her but her five children.  Joshua then pulls five fish out of the basket. 

Peter, who observes all that is happening states; “It’s a miracle I gave you one, just one fish and you gave her five!”  To which Joshua replies; “And you would have given her none!”

Out of his want Joshua gives the woman a fish and they are multiplied. The monger says I gave you one and Joshua says you would have given her none.  Sometimes out of our need comes abundance. We can feed many one fish at a time or one sandwich at time.  Art and Jerry how do you make your sandwiches for your day of feeding the homeless??  Do you suddenly have 30 or forty sandwiches??  They are made one at a time.

I think one message that can be taken from this story is not that Jesus worked a miracle but the miracle happened in community.  I can’t feed 10 or twenty people myself but I can bring in a few cans of food and if everyone does we have a food pantry that is over flowing.  I can’t possibly give enough to keep the doors open to the AIDS hospice in Tijuana but if I give a pocket of pennies every week eventually that jar over there fills up.

Jesus didn’t ask Phillip to collect enough money and buy enough food to feed all the people that were gathered.  No Jesus asked what do you have?  What can you do??  Can you give but one?? If you have no fish and bread can you offer the people a warm welcome and a place to sit?? Or do you choose to be overwhelmed and sit back and say I would give none?  I would do nothing?? So I ask what are you being called to do??  Perhaps read a news paper to someone who has lost their sight??  Perhaps volunteer at a food bank??  Maybe just give one loaf of bread??

When we respond with I can do something.. Miracles happen and people are fed literally and spiritually.  Amen.

Happy Birthday Church; A Pentecost Sermon

Gracious God - bless now the words of my lips and the

      meditations of our hearts.  Breath your Spirit into us and

      grant that we may hear and in hearing be led in the way you

      want us to go.  Amen.

Breathe your spirit into us. What does that even mean.??

today is a significant day -

   this is the day on which the first believers came alive in their faith,

       the day when the Rock upon which Christ planted his church began to

       support and uphold an incredible new life -

a life that has existed since the world began,

   but which was poured out in a special fashion

       and took on flesh in you and me

much as it took life in Jesus, the son of Mary, the son of God

so long ago.

Pentecost is an event that the world has long been promised and which the people of God have long awaited. With that let me say…

Dzien dobry (Polish), Buenos dias (Spanish), Nyado delek (Tibetan), Endermen aderkh (armarhic), Bari Luys (Armenian), Kali Mera (Greek), Shubh Prabhat (Hindi).  I have just announce good morning or good day in several languages those languages were….  But what has that to with today?? Todays Gospel has several Miracles it speaks about.  But before we can get into the Gospel you know I like to set the scene.

We are in the Jerusalem of Jesus’ time it is 50 days after Good Friday.  Actually the name of the Holiday is a Jewish reference. Pentecost is actually a Jewish Holiday a festival of early harvest that occurred fifty days after Passover also known as the festival of Weeks, Shavuot, or the day to commemorate the giving of the Ten Commandments.

It is interesting to note that Christ said in Mathew “Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the Law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.”

Then Later in John Jesus foretells of the coming of the spirit…"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.”

Today is Pentecost and for us that's the birthday of the church,

when the Holy Spirit, the very presence of God came into the

church and gave the church life.

So here it is Pentecost in Jerusalem and the disciples are kind of hiding out.  They are frightened that the mobs that came for Jesus may come for them.  They come and go very clandestinely. This day they are all gathered, again I must emphasize that all means men women and children, slaves and free. It is reported that suddenly there was a roar as of a rushing wind.  It was so loud that the people who had gathered in Jerusalem heard the noise and gathered around the house.  Imagine hearing the sound of a rushing wind and yet there is none…no wind…no movement just the sound, wouldn’t you want to see what was happening.

So gathered outside are Jewish people from Jerusalem and those who traveled back for the holiday,.  There are Greeks and Romans, there were people from what we know as Libya and Egypt, there were probably traders from the Far East as well as Macedonia, People from the entire known world.  Some had come for Passover and just stayed till Pentecost others were there just for that festival.  There were many  people and many languages.

So as the crowd is gathering outside those in the house are hearing the same thing it sounds like a mighty wind is coming and all around them.  They are wondering if they have been found,   if they are under attack of some kind or if the world as they know it is ending.  Suddenly a fire appears in the room divides and alights on each ones head.  They are filled with the spirit and they go out to greet the crowd.

Pentecost is the reversal of what occurred at the Tower of Babel when, because of our sinfulness, because we chose to separate ourselves from God we became unable to understand one another and then a mighty wind came up and blew us to the four corners of the world.

Do you hear the similar elements here, there was a sound of rushing wind but it did not disperse the people but caused them to be gathered and  at Pentecost each heard the disciples proclaim the news in their own tongue.  I have always found this one of the most significant passages.  It is not that the Holy Spirit allowed the disciples to speak languages of all the known nations at the time but that the spirit made it possible for all to hear and understand the message of God.  The message that there is new life and a new way to be in the world  away free from guilt and persecution for as it was proclaimed at the days of creation it is being proclaimed again God saw all things under the heavens and proclaimed them all GOOD!

Those 120 disciples were just a handful of rather ordinary men and women, a few fishermen, a couple of housewives, a former tax collector, a few farmers, some children and some servant girls. Yet through these ordinary people God built a Church which has lasted now for over 2,0000 years. In less than 300 years, that small, insignificant Jewish sect became the official religion of the entire Roman Empire and today the Church of Jesus Christ circles the globe and numbers some one billion members.

How did they do it? What happened to those 120 follower in the year 30 A.D. on the day we call Pentecost? Those 120 followers came in contact with the Christian’s unknown God. Yes, that is right, those 120 followers came in contact with the Christian’s unknown God. They came in contact with God’s Spirit, or the Holy Spirit. For many Christians the events of Pentecost, the events of God’s spirit coming Today is one of the 4 major festivals of the church year. Today we celebrate the coming of God’s spirit, the Holy Spirit into the lives of men and woman, today we celebrate the birthday of the church. But, if you didn’t come to church today, if you maybe hadn’t read your daily devotional booklet, or perhaps if you hadn’t looked at the church calendar, you would have not known this was a major festival of the church year. Today is just as important as Christmas, just as important as Easter, just as important as the festival of the Ascension, but for some unknown reason, this festival, this holiday in the church year goes by almost unnoticed. Why is that?

Maybe because we have a difficult time getting a handle on the Spirit of God or maybe, we don’t understand what exactly happened on this day. And maybe, talk about the Spirit is not so sweet as talk about a baby born in a manager, angels singing in the heavens, gifts being passed about and shepherds tending their sheep on quiet hillsides.

Maybe Pentecost doesn’t get so much attention because we have not found a way to commercialize it, we don’t turn Pentecost into a cultural extravaganza, or into a national holiday, so it goes unnoticed. 

But, this festival, this holiday is very important for the life of the church, for your life and my life. The Spirit of God is not something we should fear, nor something we should ignore, but the Holy Spirit is God’s presence in this world. It is the same presence that was moving over the face of the earth when God created this world in which we live. It is that same presence that took the form of a baby born in a manager in Bethlehem, it is the same spirit of God that walked the earth for 33 years, teaching, healing, proclaiming the love of God for all people. And now, today, it is that same spirit that is with us, it is God’s spirit alive and well on this earth, working through his people, the church, to bring his love into the brokenness of this world.

The power of God’s Spirit came to earth on Pentecost.
Power can be used in at least two ways: it can be unleashed, or it can be harnessed. The energy in ten gallons of gasoline, for instance, can be released explosively by dropping a lighted match into the can. Or it can be channeled through the engine of a Datsun in a controlled burn and used to transport a person 350 miles. Explosions are spectacular, but controlled burns have a lasting effect, staying power. The Holy Spirit works both ways. At Pentecost, he exploded on the scene; His presence was like "tongues of fire" (Acts 2:3). Thousands were affected by one burst of God’s power. But He also works through the church--the institution God began to tap the Holy Spirit’s power for the long haul. Through worship, fellowship, and service, Christians are provided with staying power.

God’s Holy Spirit comes quietly, it comes in slowly, but it comes to us with enough power so that we might do the job God has called, led each of us to do. There is a power, a force and for many an untapped force in each of our lives, that is the Holy Spirit. Many times it is not dramatic, it does not cause us to do dramatic things, but it is there to give us the power to live the kind of lives, to be the kind of people that God intended us to live and  be.

The nature of this spirit empowers us to live first of all pointing to Christ. The kind of life God intends for us to live points not to us, not to our accomplishments, but to the Lord of Life, Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit works with our spirit so that we might experience the righteousness of Christ in our lives.

It is this Spirit that comes into our lives, into the church to allow us to spread God’s message of love to all people. It is this Spirit which points not to itself, but to Christ. It is this Spirit which allows us to point not to ourselves, but to Christ. It is this Spirit which makes the church, the Body of Christ, the most unique organization on the face of the earth.

The church is the most amazing organization in the world! And my friends you and I are part of it, not because we did anything, but because the Holy Spirit has lead us, because the Gospel and the Life of Jesus has taught us. The Holy Spirit gathers together, enlightens and makes holy all people on earth and keeps Holy the earth herself.
The power of the Holy Spirit was brought into the world this day over 2000 years ago, and that power is still present today through us and within the church.

Yes, we are welcomed again to the Pentecost event in the Year 2012!!

Today is Pentecost ,the birthday of the church,

when the Holy Spirit, the very presence of God came into the

church and gave the church life.

God loves us so much that God gives us the Holy Spirit, God's

own presence to live inside us. We can't really see the Spirit anymore than we can see the air around us. But we can feel the air, the wind blowing, can't we?  We can see it when the tree

limbs are moving.  So, too, we can feel the Spirit in our lives when we are moved to love God and love others, to worship God and serve God.

Yet to do nothing and wait and hoper for  a nudging from the spirit is not what we are called too.  The spirit calls us to engage actively in a spiritual life, to seek out times of quite with God , to seek out times of prayer, to seek out times of ministry where we engage God and the spirit in the world.  Just as a child learns the difference between stillness and a gentle breeze we must engage in practices so we can detect and learn to recognize the moving of God’s spirit in our lives.

God gives us so many wonderful gifts and the church is just one of them. Tell me, what do you like about the church, this church, On this the birthday of the church, what's special to you about it? Go ahead shout out an answer.. 

The church is first and above all - the people of God   united and empowered by God to show God's love to world.

On a birthday, you usually give a gift, don't you?  Well, on this birthday of the church we do not so much give gifts to the church as we offer back to God the fruit of the gift that was given the

Church when it was born.  We celebrate what God has given!

Rick Kirchoff, Germantown United Methodist Church said this in 2001 at the Opening remarks to the Memphis Annual Conference of the Methodist churches.

When God sends forth the Spirit amazing things happen:

barriers are broken,
communities are formed,
opposites are reconciled,
unity is established,
disease is cured,
addiction is broken,
cities are renewed,
races are reconciled,
hope is established,
people are blessed,
and church happens.

Today the Spirit of God is present
and we’re gonna‚ have church.

So be ready, get ready...God is up to something... discouraged folks cheer up,
dishonest folks ’fess up,
sour folks sweeten up,
closed folk, open up,
gossipers shut up,
conflicted folks make up,
sleeping folks wake up,
lukewarm folk, fire up,
dry bones shake up,
and pew potatoes stand up!
But most of all, Christ the Savior of all the world is lifted up...in Glory

Yes, welcome to the Pentecost event, 2012, and Happy Birthday to the church!
Blessings
 ,

Straight Faith for Gay Equality

Rev. Troy Perry friend and Founder of Metropolitan Community Churches along with Jay Bakker, son of Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker appeared on MSNBC today.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy